Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith [Spoilers]

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:26 pm

"Kick ass I do"

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:49 pm

I heard a rumor that Lucas is going go back into ROTJ and put Hayden in at the end where Anakin, Yoda, and Obi Wan are looking down on Luke. Do you think Lucas would actually do that?

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:51 pm

Never heard the rumor, it's a bad idea, most wouldn't, but...

Shanti418 wrote:Do you think Lucas would actually do that?

...I wouldn't put it past him.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:02 pm

I would just feel sorry for the guy who played Anakin originally. You've got this one moment of glory, of immortal fame, and all of a sudden, it's ripped out from underneath your feet.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:43 pm

Are you guys serious, or are you joking?

He's done it... along time ago.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:46 pm

Serious on my part. I've not seen the "enhanced" versions of the original Star Wars trilogy, so I have absolutely no insight to what all was ever done.

Post by **Best First** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:57 pm

its done - its on the DVD box set...

...and it makes no sense! yay.

Poor Kit Fisto

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:01 pm

Its before he becomes a Sith, so hes still young... but then becomes a blue glowie for helping Luke... erm... oh well.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon May 23, 2005 8:26 pm

Um, okay, after hearing of that particular change (which I really don't get) I decided to google a little changery of SW. I ran into a dialogue change between Vader and Palpatine/Sidious in The Empire Strikes Back (I think). It's in regards to the "son of Skywalker" and Vader's all surprised about it. But, isn't the entire flick revolving around Vader's searching for "Luke Skywalker" which I swear he mentions by name prior to where this conversation takes place???

Think of these things I mustn't. A headache I will have.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:28 pm

It would seem that only at that point did Darth Vader know he had a son. He knew that "the force is strong with this one", while chasing Luke in A New Hope.

And we know that at the end of ROTS, Vader thinks he killed Padme, presumably before she gave birth.

However, I don't know anything about other dialogue points in ESB prior to Sidius saying that.

As far as the prior part: So what you're saying is that in the DVD box set, he's got the kid Anakin at the end of ROTJ?
If that's true, then he SHOULD go back and put in ROTS-era Anakin.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:22 am

no, its not the kid, its Hayden.

but to me that makes no sense either - the original works far better IMO.

Post by **Kaylee** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:52 am

Am I only only person who actually feels quite disappointed at what Darth Vader turns out to be? He always seemed to me to be a huge, monolithic great man. Built like the proverbial outter toilet and with a huge deep booming voice. Fair enough in ROTJ he's an old man... but I have a hard time believing that a young guy as slender as Hayden, with such a lesser voice and presence actually turns into Vader.

Surely that's sort of like me turning into George Foreman?

Or possibly Formby...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:07 am

Karl Lynch wrote:Am I only only person who actually feels quite disappointed at what Darth Vader turns out to be? He always seemed to me to be a huge, monolithic great man. Built like the proverbial outter toilet and with a huge deep booming voice. Fair enough in ROTJ he's an old man... but I have a hard time believing that a young guy as slender as Hayden, with such a lesser voice and presence actually turns into Vader.

Not just you. He looked quite tiny in the suit at the end. I can also no longer take him seriously as an EVIL person, as they seemed to be going to great (and melodramatically overstated) lengths to make us understand where he was coming from.

Sorry if anybody said that already, but I really can't be arsed to trawl through however many pages this is... you know what I'm like.

Visually, I thought the film was stunning. unning. Felt the early action scenes were just going through the motions a bit, though. But the dialogue... my god, the dialogue. Argh.

"I can't watch anymore!"

"In my point of view, the Jedi are evil." Rather calm and diplomatic thing to say in the heat of battle. "Maybe we can get together and debate this over coffee once I've killed you" he could have added but didn't.

Yoda kicking beeehind was trés cool, tho.

For a moment I thought General Greivous had read the Evil Overlord List, with the whole "getting his troops to kill Obi-wan" thing. But the fact that Renton killing four of them was enough to make him change his mind scratched that idea.

Didn't think much of Saruman/Count Duckula's cameo. Felt like Lee was just going through the motions.

But yeah, visually stunning. ning.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:11 am

Señior's Covenant wrote:Um, okay, after hearing of that particular change (which I really don't get) I decided to google a little changery of SW. I ran into a dialogue change between Vader and Palpatine/Sidious in The Empire Strikes Back (I think). It's in regards to the "son of Skywalker" and Vader's all surprised about it. But, isn't the entire flick revolving around Vader's searching for "Luke Skywalker" which I swear he mentions by name prior to where this conversation takes place???

Think of these things I mustn't. A headache I will have.

Well Luke gets famous for blowing up the death star, right in front of Vader to hoot. So Vader's search for Luke is a curosity. He knows he's strong in the force, a great flyer and called Skywalker. Too much of a concidence here. He probably wants to know his origins and their connections.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:20 am

Karl Lynch wrote:Am I only only person who actually feels quite disappointed at what Darth Vader turns out to be? He always seemed to me to be a huge, monolithic great man. Built like the proverbial outter toilet and with a huge deep booming voice. Fair enough in ROTJ he's an old man... but I have a hard time believing that a young guy as slender as Hayden, with such a lesser voice and presence actually turns into Vader.

couldn't agree more - i've thought that since AOTC.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:20 am

I also have a hard time seeing Hayden as Darth Vader.
Darth Vader walks like he owns the whole god damn universe "Dude, I'm Darth Vader and nothing can stop me. Not even loosing my legs, an arm and my eyebrows".
He's big. He's evil. He's menacing.

Hayden is more like... Edward Furlong in Terminator 2.
Not much of a Darth Vader.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:25 am

Are the stormtroopers in episodes IV to VI still clones? Cause they don't sound like they're from New Zealand no more.

Best First wrote:no, its not the kid, its Hayden.

but to me that makes no sense either - the original works far better IMO.

Not only non-sensical, but completely takes the emotion out of the scene IMO. That aged warm smile is replaced with a sulky looking teen.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:28 am

Being dead makes you go back to how you looked before you became evil, don't ya know.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:46 am

I understand where your comming from, was it me or did his helmet look more like the one in space balls?, ie, over sized on haydens small frame. I mean David Prouse is a huge man...

Anyhows, its not so much that Vadar is evil "twisted and corrupted by the Dark side" - is more how I see it, the emperor telling Anakin that 'he' killed Padme seemed to be the finnal nail in the coffin...
bah im clutching, look dont ruin it, I liked the finnal scene, he was just to short...

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:39 am

I loved when Darth Vader crossed his arms.
That was good.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue May 24, 2005 11:01 am

Can somebody explain to me the whole "secret marriage" guff?

So... they've gotten married. And they live in the exact same apartment. And sleep in the exact same bed. And people visit them all the time, and ask her where he is, expecting her to know.

But NOBODY KNOWS that they're involved.

Eh?

What's the point of them being married if absolutely nobody knows? Is it even possible for them to get married with nobody knowing? Did they get R2 to conduct the ceremony? I mean if they're not going to tell anybody, what's the point? Legal stuff? Padme gets Anakin's pension if he dies? Why not just cohabit and get a puppy?

The first half felt rushed - "oh, I want to do this... and this... and this... and this!"

I was cringing during the whole Order 66 thing. Yes, it's a tragic and dramatic scene, I understand. It's implicit. You don't need to switch to "poignant music!" and super slo-mo in order to underline this. I am not seven.

I knew about the youngling massacre beforehand, and to be honest was expecting there to be actual bodyparts for Yoda to sift through. How did he know they'd been killed with a lightsaber? Because they were sliced, diced and cauterised? No! Because they were lying bloodless in one piece like they'd fallen asleep at the end of playtime. Obviously.

Anakin's fall from grace and turn to the Dark Side. Yes, the entire purpose of the film... the reason I was there. To see what finally caused him to crack... to give up, to give in... and what is it? Protecting his family.

Okay... so, the supposed uberbad of uberbadness is evil because... he didn't want his wife to die. As underlying motivations go, it's hardly earth shattering. The moral of Anakin's fall isn't "greed leads to evil", it's not "be selfless else you will destroy yourself"... no, it's "love = BAD."

Points for the arse-crack in Palpatine's forehead, though.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue May 24, 2005 11:23 am

Brendocon wrote:Being dead makes you go back to how you looked before you became evil, don't ya know.

but... but... at the end of ROTJ (before he dies) he's been redeemed, he is good again... he died a goodie... he should have stayed old...

Lucas, you tit.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:10 pm

What about the pregnancy thing? The film really didn't give the impression it was taking place over 9 months or so. Maybe pregnancies go quicker in Star Wars universe?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:12 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:What about the pregnancy thing? The film really didn't give the impression it was taking place over 9 months or so. Maybe pregnancies go quicker in Star Wars universe?

Well, they hadn't seen each other in ages... but she didn't seem that far gone at all. Even if they do go faster, that just leads me to think that maybe it wasn't his. Nudge nudge wink wink. Et cetera. Boring.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:13 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:look dont ruin it, I liked the finnal scene

"Where is Padme? Is she... alright?"

too late!

Ok - another thought:

When Plaps and Yoda are scrapping Palps is boasting that even if he loses it dun't really matter as Darth Vader will go on to be more powerfull than them all - suggesting as much as his own success he has some twisted notion of a Sith legacy and Vaders future is as important as his own.

However in ROTJ the emporer is happy to ditch vader for luke and tells luke that they both belong to him, sugegsting its all about Palps baby.

So was he jsut talking guff to Yoda? Or was Vader's power somewhat curtailed by not having any limbs? Or something? eh?

Post by **Kaylee** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:15 pm

Something to do with Lucas being unable to keep a clear idea in his head of what actually motivates his characters and an inability to convincingly explain behaviour their maybe?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:16 pm

Best First wrote:So was he jsut talking guff to Yoda?

It's standard 2d villain crap, innit?

"It's no good! Don't try to resist me! Your goals are meaningless! Even if you win, you will ultimately lose! Mwaha! What I represent is greater than you, insignificant do-gooder! Mwaha!"

Et cetera.

Was pleasantly surprised Anakin's light saber didn't magically become red towards the end.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:52 pm

H should have got a red one of palps...

Maybe palps 'senses the good' in Vadar, so he looks to Luke instead, doesnt realise it first and all.

the two cannot be shown to be in love because shes is senator, and the Jedi thier army if u will, it would look a bit iffy... she explained this in AotC I belive.

I still liked it.

as for vaders first words, hes obsessed with her, so the first thing he asks about is her, and then palps rubs it in

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:34 pm

It just hit me that Han Solo has got some big ass balls.
In The Empire Strikes Back, when he enters the dining room and Darth Vader (who's like the vice president of the universe or something) is standing there, Han just whips out his gun and tries to kill him.

Allthough I hope that George Lucas will change it, so that Vader tries some force crap before Han whips out his gun.
Don't want Han to look evil now do we.

Anyways.. the chemistry between the characters/actors was way better in the old trilogy.
In my book, good chemistry between the actors can really change a movie.
Even the slightest hint of chemistry between Hayden and Portman would've made the movie at least 2% better.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Tue May 24, 2005 1:50 pm

Obfleur wrote:Even the slightest hint of chemistry between Hayden and Portman would've made the movie at least 2% better.

Agreed. That's the only thing that really bugs me about the flick honestly

. I liked Hayden for the role, if nothing more than his look. He had the absolute perfect look in my opinion and I have no trouble seeing his character develop over time into the Vader we know.

I guess I can forego the whole Sidious/Vader scene where it's said Luke is the son of Anakin. There's other folks out there with my last name, and I guess from his perspective (with events playing as he thought they did) at absolute most he could only assume perhaps this was the son of Anakin's Aunt & Uncle? I did get that right, right?

Something about the Darkside though. Is it something people just go for and *poof* "I'm evil" or is it something that begins to devour them? If the latter I have no problem with Anakin going from a man trying to save his pregnant wife to a powermonger. He's always displayed a want for more.

And I do think pregnancies take roughly the same amount of time, we've been given no reason to think otherwise. I believe the pregnancy was the key item to display just how much time was passing throughout the film so that the viewer doesn't just assume this all happened in a day or two.