What the H*LL?! Why is Dreamwave's site down?!! >:(

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:06 am

No. They don't. Marvel does not publish any licensed books today, at all. (To my knowledge)They gave that one up in the mid 90's when among others TF:Generation2 was scrapped.

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:43 pm

Curious, I haven't read any of the Devils Due GI Joe comics, but are they keeping the same continuity as Marvel?
If so thats impressive.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:28 pm

Predabot wrote:But the Dreamwave continuity are not like the cartoon.

except in that is childishly pitched, crapply plotted and oh so cancelled.

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:40 pm

Really? I didn't think DW was that bad.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:56 pm

Me neither, I liked the most of v3 (curiously I weren't very fond of v2, and liked v1 better.

Ah, now I remember.

Megatron got to squash more fleshies!), and thought that Beast Wars(It woulda!), Armadaverse and WarWithin was smashin'.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:13 pm

gforce99 wrote:Really? I didn't think DW was that bad.

Check out a few threads from this board, we dont like DW - they are crap and we can prove it to!

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
gforce99 wrote:Really? I didn't think DW was that bad.
Check out a few threads from this board, we dont like DW - they are crap and we can prove it to!

OK, got it. TransFans.net is an anti-DW board. Roger that.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:47 pm

Its not really.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:48 pm

Just anti-crap.

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:04 pm

Well from most ppls posts, it sounds like most here prefer our current state of no TF comics over DW's version.

Since TFs story was already splintered 50-ways before DW, does it matter that they started over/retread? Not that it matters now, since I am convinced whenever a new TF comic starts up it will be yet again another version.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:11 pm

gforce99 wrote:does it matter that they started over/retread?

In essence, no. But the way they seemed to make it up as they went along whilst blindfolded didn't help.

It took them over 2 years to get the hang of it as far as I can see (other than those damn delays). As I've said elsewhere, I was in the main enjoying their latest stuff (though I feared the coming of the fembots - we needn't have worried, eh?).

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:23 pm

gforce99 wrote:TransFans.net is an anti-DW board.

I'd say most of us are just pro- good comics. There's a limited amount of original Marvel UK and US material I'm prepared to hold up and defend as great, as comics as well as Transformers tie-in fiction. There's oh-so little of that with DW; the originality has mostly come from art/design (Don) whilst Furman has to a great extent been retreading familiar territory. I don't think much of it was his fault; the mini-series format and what passed for an editorial process at DW certainly didn't help.

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:32 pm

You do realize that TFs was canned by Marvel about 10 years ago, right?
I think that DW tried hard, failed some times, but overall brought to me a good story with excellent art work.
Not that it matters anyway, their gone now.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:36 pm

gforce99 wrote:You do realize that TFs was canned by Marvel about 10 years ago, right?

Really?!?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:46 pm

Gee golly!

Well, I had no problems with Dw...

Except with Mad Brick's info dumps, the Shockwavedidit-is and corny lines...

Oh and Rob (whattheheckisthatyoudrew) Ruffolo's art...

and the delays...

and Pat Lee, as an artist and as a boss...

Ok,so I have a few problems with them.

But I liked MTMTE, everything that Furman did,and even the first GI Joe crossover. A bit.

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:59 pm

Help me out (aka convince me) what exactly did Mick do that was wrong?
Thanks
(sorry if it seems I am n00b antagonist)

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:03 pm

gforce99 wrote:You do realize that TFs was canned by Marvel about 10 years ago, right?
I think that DW tried hard, failed some times, but overall brought to me a good story with excellent art work.
Not that it matters anyway, their gone now.

You must be reading another comic to us then - I was never impressed, the storys were unispired, the artwork often badley directed and rushed.

hardley the standard of modern Marvel work.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:03 pm

gforce99 wrote:Help me out (aka convince me) what exactly did Mick do that was wrong?
Thanks
(sorry if it seems I am n00b antagonist)

I'll start things off, he was born.

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:07 pm

Ultimate Weapon wrote:
gforce99 wrote:Help me out (aka convince me) what exactly did Mick do that was wrong?
Thanks
(sorry if it seems I am n00b antagonist)
I'll start things off, he was born.

Ok, can we reach a little deeper? Now your just sounding childish.

BTW You guys really liked the art in TF Marvel? Some was ok, like Geoff Senior and Andy Wildman...but most of it was mediocre.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:40 pm

Just for the (re)record I'm not an art fan in a visual sense so much, though there may be something to be said about an Optimus Prime with a tiny head, surprised expression, breasts, and thunderlegs; but since we aren't talking about that I won't bring it up. The stories were what was important to me.

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:49 pm

gforce99 wrote:You do realize that TFs was canned by Marvel about 10 years ago, right?

Do you have a point to make here, or are you standing pat at being facile?

Dreamwave having material produced within the last few years does not magically make that material well-written, well-edited (or edited at all in places) or consistent. It also hasn't conferred upon their headline artist a feel for proportion, scale, consistency from panel to panel, or the ability to draw Optimus Prime sans cleavage...

gforce99 wrote:what exactly did Mick do that was wrong?

Amateurish pacing, retconning out of spite, reference stuffing, plagiarising whole scenes from previous canon material (but mangling dialogue, natch), interpolating robots as having human gender roles, failing to keep continuity straight from one issue to another, suggesting in interview that he viewed his predecessor's work as a dream sequence.

Off the top of my head.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:52 pm

Lets not forget the retelling of the Transformers Movie in Mad Brick-o-Vision. At least we were spared this harpooon.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:52 pm

marvels art work was largely governed by print at the time, modern colour techniques and 'special effects' via photoshop that DW so excitedly over use were not possible back then, but basic depiction of a scene will never change. this is where some of DW's work falls down.
ive seen various prints where they have re used a character in another scene just scaled up, mirroed or postioned behind another character, clearly a PS process, and suggests that alot of work is drawn and coloured by seperate artists, this leads to alot of scenes looking pasted together.

I actully think with some modern colouring techniques marvels old work would shine, some of it is truly inspired, not all of course.

Now if you compare marvels modern x-men works to DW work you can see years of experience behind the art direction, id love to see them pick up the title from an artistic point of view.

Dead Head · Post by **Dead Head** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:57 pm

Some points I've come up with to compare:

Code: Select all


               TRANSFORMERS COMIC STRIP CRITERIA
    MARVEL UK (1980s)                   DREAMWAVE (2000s)
    =========                           =========
 1. simply/average detailed art         highly detailed art
 2. black-and-white/flat 4-color        24-bit computer color
 3. poor/average/great strip artists    awful/great strip artists
 4. decent character positioning        bad character positioning
 5. decent character proportioning      terrible character proportioning
 6. obvious, clear panels               obscured, cluttered panels
 7. easy panel flow                     horrendous panel flow
 8. single cover artwork                multiple cover artwork
 9. hand-written lettering              computer lettering

10. multistranded plotting              multistranded plotting
11. excellent characterization          poor/mixed characterization
12. mature storytelling                 poor/mixed storytelling
13. good writer                         b(r)ad writer
14. excellent pacing                    terrible pacing
15. script-led stories                  art-following stories
16. minimum cheezey moments             fanboy mozzarella party
17. original plots                      rehashed plots
18. few of external 'nods'              plenty of external 'nods'
19. minimum retcons                     jarring retcons

20. timely (geddit?) releases           badly delayed releases
21. good editing                        non-existant editing
22. self-deprecating letters pages      self-aggrandizing letters pages

"You do the math!"
I'll take good stories over pretty pictures any day.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:01 pm

Most of the bad points leveled at Marvel thier are due to technolagy - so in theroy modern marvel would rock?

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:02 pm

number 14 pretty much says it all

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:04 pm

Dead Head wrote:I'll take good stories over pretty pictures any day.

Yessir. Ten through Twenty-two do it for me.

"13. good writer - b(r)ad writer "

B-A-Ootifull!

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:06 pm

ah crap 13 was what I meant.. good call Senior

gforce99 · Post by **gforce99** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:07 pm

Ok, thanks for gratiously answering my questions.
Is DW's version of the TFs generally hated in UK?
I ask this because the majority of other TF boards I visit aren't as...hmmm...clear in their dislike of TFs DW-verse.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:10 pm

Dead Head: