Can't really think of a good title

[Best First]

Hey Transfans

It's that time again

Think I do a post like this on average every 4 years although I have a slight concern that the average may be trending down.

So last year mainly sucked. I was in a relationship that I wanted to work but was not working, I was pushing myself hard at work to get promotion and I was on a fairly disastrous project with a monster of a client a difficult boss and a complicated commercial environment all of which basically amounted to me working evenings weekends and never really feeling like I was doing a good enough job as whenever we delivered something the goalposts just moved and trekking up and down the country for work every week. So work was crap and home life was pretty crap (except when we went away, when things seemed to get better). And at various times I would blame one for the other - I wasn't doing well enough at work because my relationship was not working or my relationship was not working because work was taking its toll. I could not desperate them or take control of either situation.

I tried our counseling service at work but I don't think I was ready to face up to the fact I was in (yet another) failed relationship and so did not get very much out of the 4 sessions I had.

Essentially I was in a tailspin. Finally in October, probably about 3-4 months later than I should of I went to the doctors and was diagnosed with depression.

Some of you may remember I suffered from this in my mid-twenties post a break up with my first "real" girlfriend. At the time I got better through a combination of friends, a very good councillor and refocusing my life on the things I could control.

So when the doctor suggested medication I was hesitant and looked to arrange more counseling. On the plus side I made work aware and they have been nothing but supportive.

Before I managed to arrange any I had to cope with a fairly major piece of surgery on my ankle and a fairly epic break up make up with the then girlfriend which resulted in me having to stay off work for a week because I basically could not face the world.

In the end I was referred to a psychiatrist who diagnosed me more specifically as suffering from "moderate clinical depression" but with a concern that if I did not take medication it was likely to move from moderate to critical if I didn't do something to stabilize quickly which counseling would not achieve. So he persuaded me to go onto anti-depressants.

He also told me not to make any major life decisions in my current state as they would either be wrong or I would doubt them so much it would cause me further challenges. On that basis I felt more positive about the fact we had not split up and we're trying again.

After a few weeks I started to feel the benefits of the drugs. I felt more stable and less anxious. however as much as I felt more stable In my mood I was conscious that the relationship has grown cold. At the same time I met someone at work who was also going through the end of s relationship and we started talking a lot. Before Christmas she told me she really liked me. At the time I said I was trying to make my relationship work and I could only be a friend, but I could myself I constant contact.

Over Xmas I came to the realization that if you are pretty much dreading spending time with your gf and smiling every time to get a message from someone else then it is time to wrap things up.

We split up on the 29th of December. On the same day I told Work Girl I liked her too and in the new year I would like to spend some time together and see what happens, which got the response I wanted.

We both talked about taking things slow but I reality both of us struggled to his our enthusiasm. The complication was she was still living at her ex's. Her ex, not too put too finer point on it is a complete and utter tool. He has cheated on her multiple times. He disappears for weeks at a time. He is emotionally abusive. When he is angry he threatens to hit her dog. He is pretty much the exact opposite of the person I would aspire to be.

She had a flat lined up so - bar a brief,incredible, kiss after a work night out- we agreed that we would wait until she moved out before starting to go out together as she did not feel comfortable seeing someone while still living under his roof, which I respected.

However in reality we were texting each other about 150 times a day, stealing moments together, we would watch movies together via text and both constantly made allusions to a long term future together. I have proper fallen for this girl.

So. In short. I had gone from being a mess at work and at home to having a supportive work environment and a great prospect on the horizon. There was a spring in my step.

And then the bombshell.

She is 10 weeks pregnant with her exe's kid.

I don't think I handled this news particularly well - my reaction was to say that she should not have his child as it would mean he was in her life forever, and pretty much rule myself out of the picture in any other scenario. I think I had pretty much already mapped out our future together in my mind and this was a wrecking ball heading towards my imaginary timeline.

But she is keeping it, as she does not agree with abortion outside of exceptional circumstances and for a few other medical reasons and with no other option she is going back to him as she wants the child to have a father.

And that should be the end of it. Practically, pragmatically it is not my problem. We have only known each other a few months. But in my mind as I say I had already committed to this girl for the long haul.

But as I sit here, the thought of not being with her, the thought of her stuck with this @sshole who absolutely will treat her like crap again is like a weight on my chest.

So I sit here wondering if I should offer to step in. In fact actively wanting to step in . I know this is a drastic step, but at the moment there is a huge part of me that wants to take it. Of course I don't know if she would accept - and part of me thinks I am now a complication that she just does not need. But maybe I am the exact opposite. I know this would be an enormous commitment, I know a lot of my friends and possibly family would think it was a stupid thing to do.

On the other hand I know I am mentally not in a good place, and as little as two months ago I was agonising over whether I should be staying in a relationship with someone else.

And when I fall I always fall hard - so when I am telling myself someone is maybe the one it is entirely possible that I am just not learning from the mistakes of the past. And I know despite various car crashes over the years I remain an incurable romantic which inclines me to jump in and hope things will all turn out alright. But how the hell do you know when to check yourself vs. when to go with what you are feeling?

So I don't trust myself, but I don't trust myself in either direction - I feel I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Better to regret the the things you do do than the things you don't?

I have to see her every ****ing day. I don't know what to do. I feel like I am falling and I will never hit the ground.

[Yaya]

Those are some pretty heavy blows you've taken of late, BeeFster. Kudos that you're still standing. Battered a bit, but still standing.

I'm not really in a position to give relationship advice, as I can't say I've really had a relationship with a women that really lasted or that I'd label a success. But I am pretty good at self-preservation, and putting myself in your shoes, without knowing the full details, my instinct would be to run like hell.....for now.

This women that you like has gone back into the abusive relationship she was in for the sake of her child, in the hopes of providing said child with a proper father. The way you have described this man, it would appear there is little chance of him successfully filling that role. And likely, in time, she will realize this. Which means that, eventually, given time and patience, you will be in a position to pursue her again. But because of her state of mind at the moment, and because of yours, to be active about things might not be a good idea until her situation unfolds (and likely unravels).

The real question though, in my mind, is not "will she come back?" but rather "do you really want to be the one to catch her?" Consider that she will have a child now. Okay, so if you're a decent caring person, there is great satisfaction in raising a child properly. I can't think of many better things one can do than to be there for a child who is in need. You could be that person. A tough job, for sure. So let's say, yeah, you like this girl enough, and you wouldn't mind tackling the tremendous but rewarding responsibility of being a proper father figure. Does that mean you should go for it?

Putting myself in your shoes, I would be concerned about two main things. First, the ex. This guy sounds abusive and possessive. You get together with this girl, you've got to deal with this pain in the ass, likely for life. It could end up a pretty sizable problem for you. Possessive and abusive people can be dangerous people. Second, the girl herself. Women who are in abusive relationships sadly tend to carry with them psychological 'baggage'. But who doesn't carry baggage with them these days, right? Her past as an abused women could be a plus or a minus. Abused individuals tend to be most appreciative of decent men, particularly when they find that man is a proper father.

I think you should not lose hope. Her going back is not a lost cause, but you need to give things time, for you and her, and then ask yourself the important questions when the time is right. Do you really want to take on the role of father whilst tackling this ex for the rest of your life?

Again, I'm no expert on interpersonal relationships. I'm quite the loner type, and quite passive when it comes to pursuing women. So I tend to play it safe, be overly cautious, and likely I miss out on a lot of potentially great opportunities. At the same time, I find comfort in not being tied down by the inevitable problems that come with the territory. There are small problems and then there are big problems. Abusive exes I would classify as big problems.

My two cents..

[Best First]

Thank you.

[Computron]

I have some thoughts to give Besters, but I gotta jet off to Court first. Just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring your predicament. Gimme an hour or two to write up my thoughts.

[Computron]

First, let me say, your empathy proves your character. As I understand your thoughts, you'd not only be stepping in to be a part of this woman's life, but also be the father her child will need. Not very many people can do that, particularly in circumstances such as this, so no matter what happens, you are a better person for so seriously considering it.

Now the clinical part. I look at this in two ways, emotionally and legally.

The Emotional Aspect

Emotionally, you are looking to satisfy two objectives. First, your own desire for a healthy and stable relationship that builds you up rather than tearing you down, and second, to help out someone you care about in a serious time of need, particularly with the prospect that absent your intervention she may be in for a lifetime of abuse.

As you are no doubt aware, this is a tricky moment as a decision you make now will, naturally, have a lifetime of consequences.

Before any decision is made, I really think you should examine the basis for your feelings and desires. For example, you have known this woman, in a more personal way, for only 2 months, give or take, correct? The beginning of relationships are always full of excitement, hope, and giddy joy, particularly when you compare it to what you've had before. It can be ridiculously tempting to take those emotions, extrapolate it over your future and immediately desire it more than anything else you've had.

Then of course, 6 months into the relationship, after things have cooled down, that you realize that things may not be perfect. Obviously it would be quite bad to have that realization set in if there is a child in play, or after you've committed to be there for the long haul.

I don't have depression, but for what it is worth, people extremely close to me do. I know that the pain of depression can create a powerful urge not to lose the joy you have or are close to having. That is another factor for you to consider, which is, are you afraid that by turning down this opportunity, that you won't have another opportunity quite like it?

The next emotional factor to consider are your needs.

This isn't easy to look at. You are already a person wired to give rather than receive. Selfish actions don't become you. But in the long run, if you aren't satisfied in a relationship or are "overfunctioning" to take care of both this woman, her child and yourself, then you will hit burnout, and you will sink further into depression, or you will leave the now broken relationship, which will cause you more guilt. Neither of those two options is acceptable.

Finally, what does this woman want? It's extremely noble and empathetic to want to ride to the rescue of this woman. However, can she, and will she reciprocate? Are you so confident in the way you view this relationship that she views you the same way you view her? I know you have feelings about your future together, but does she?

A part that is extremely concerning to me is that despite how poorly this woman is treated by her ex, she is willing to endure that so that her child has a "father," even if that father is going to be particularly awful. That's not something you can easily resolve, but it is something you can get easily hurt by.

Regardless, this sort of relationship is doomed to failure if she doesn't have your interests at heart as well. A relationship is a two way street. If only you are providing then it isn't a relationship, it's co-dependency, an extremely unhealthy arrangement that will hurt you tremendously.

This is a lot of negatives, I understand that. I also believe that your inner mind is pushing you to do this as it is saying that this is the right thing to do for yourself, for her and your child. But you have to make sure that this is something that can last longer than the initial feel good moments at the beginning of any relationship.

The Legal Aspect

First, I'm obviously not an attorney in the U.K. I don't know crap about how they handle things there in the family law setting, so take my advice at your own peril. That being said, in addition to my other legal work, I also do family law here in Illinois. Divorce, custody that sort of thing.

If you were an Illinois citizen I'd tell you, from a legal perspective, that this is a bad idea.

This ex seems like the kind of guy who is going to be an awful father, but will do everything in his power to assert his parental rights, while being an absolute pain when it comes to paying child support. This means lots of litigation. Lots of court time. Lots of fighting.

In Illinois, the Courts would initially be biased in favor of joint custody. That means each parent has a say in bringing up that child. The child may live with one parent primarily, but when it comes to major decisions, each parent has a role.

This means you, as quasi-step dad, have nothing. You can't so much as sign a school waiver as state you are the legal father. This can be psychologically devastating, particularly as you could possibly be part of this child's life from birth, and yet would not be able to consent to a doctor giving the child a flu shot, let alone sign a waiver for the kid to play at whatever the UK equivalent of Chuck E. Cheese is.

Could you adopt this child? Sure, if the dad gave up his parental rights or was stripped of it. That's a whole other battle there. Quick question, in the UK is a woman required to list the putative father on the birth certificate? She could always decline to do so. That would force him to go to Court to get paternity testing done. Otherwise he would have no parental rights.

However, in regards to you, regardless of whether you marry this woman or not, you'd be a legally powerless step dad. Is that something you are comfortable with? I ask because this can cause tremendous emotional stress, anxiety and anger. Are you prepared to deal with that?

Conclusion

Your actions remind me of St. Ignatius' Prayer for Generosity. I know you're not religious, but bear with me, as I think it speaks volumes.

Lord, teach me to be generous.
Teach me to serve you as you deserve;
to give and not to count the cost,
to fight and not to heed the wounds,
to toil and not to seek for rest,
to labor and not to ask for reward,
save that of knowing that I do your will.

The bolded section has always struck me as particularly powerful, ever since I first read this prayer probably 15 odd years ago, and it reminds me a lot of what you are thinking about now.

You are ready, and possibly willing, to jump into an unknown situation, to give all of yourself to this woman you barely know, so that her child may grow up well, and you aren't terribly worried about the cost to yourself.

It's an incredibly noble and inspiring amount of empathy and one you have to be careful not to consume you. I am not advocating selfishness, may it never be said that Ayn Rand's pathological insanity has infected my writing, but I am advocating restraint. If you do this, this will be one of the largest challenges of your life. It will affect every aspect of your life. Your family, friends, work you name it. You're also the kind of person that if you are in this position, you won't quit or abandon it, even if it kills you, because you don't want to let this person down or break your oaths.

But if you are a flaming wreck in a year, what help will you be to anyone? Intentions don't equal capacity or ability.

You are just coming off the end of one relationship and are treating your own depression. Work is still stressful, I assume? (Can you imagine a child on top of that?) How capable will you be of giving this woman and child the support they need? They'll need more than financial support obviously. They'll need emotional support as well.

Possible Answer

On the other hand you want this woman to not suffer at the hands of her ex, correct? I also doubt you want to cut off this person, nor would I advocate that.

However, injecting yourself into her life probably won't work out the way you expect, for various reasons outlined above, not the least of which is that she still has to make a choice between her ex and you.

What I think you should do is talk to her about exactly what you are feeling. Explain to her your fears about her going back to her ex, and that you'd be willing to continue seeing her and seeing if a relationship can work out.

But two things have to be made clear between you. She should be willing to abandon her ex asap, and you shouldn't have to commit and say "No matter what, I'm sticking around." It's way too early to make that sort of commitment based on a 2 month relationship.

[bumblemusprime]

Good comments from everyone. I can only add a few things.

I'm sure you'd make a hell of a dad, and not just because you've kept Transfans in line for fifteen years. But keep in mind: dating a mum ≠ being a dad. As Compy said, the ex will be a pain in the ass, and will assert himself as the kids' dad. Your relationship as lovers will get heavily involved with her role as a parent, and you'll be a good quasi-stepdad, but it's okay to hold off on big commitments and just be supportive throughout the pregnancy, delivery and care of the kid.

You are dating a mum, not becoming a dad. That includes being a very supportive, nurturing, occasionally disciplining step-baby-daddy. It doesn't have to mean becoming a father (it might down the line).

Frame it in this way and you might be able to relax a bit.

I'm a bit concerned at her reaction to run back to crazy ex. If she really thinks that the baby needs a dad enough to go to this nut, I'd be worried about her judgment about your relationship, but as I said above, you don't need to see this as a long term commitment. The ex has twisted up her brain for years, obvs. (that means obviously) (/rodimus)

Also, speaking as a guy whose own kid was unexpected. I see a lot of people try to plan their way around parenting in every case, and you're never going to be able to anticipate everything. I think my kids will remember me as a good dad. They'll also remember me as a frequent grump who bitched about getting interrupted during writing time, and they'll probably choose not to become teachers as they see how many extra classes I have to teach. I can live with that. I can't be perfect.

Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans. I've lived that. I have a busy broke life, but it's a very good one. Be with the person who makes you happy... and doesn't give you too much **** about buying Transformers.

[Optimus Prime Rib]

Paul we have talked a bit about this situation in private. I want to first say that I am extremely proud to call you my friend. I am glad you trust us enough to let us know what is going on. You are a great guy and any woman would be lucky to have you at her side. Remember what i had told you about KaeLynn. Blood does not equal family.Love equals family. If you love this woman as much as you say you do, then the only thing that matters is are you willing to be a Dad. Any idiot that cant figure out the instructions on a box of condoms can be a father. It takes a real man to be a Dad.

Will you have to put up with her ex? Possibly. It depends on how much of a tool he really is. If he genuinely wants to be in his childs life, GOOD. Let him. If he does not and you do, then check paternity law. If this guy is as much scum as you say, he will probably be grateful to be able to dodge child support.

The MOST important thing is this:
Do not "save her because she is pregnant". That is not fair to you. It is not fair to her. And most importantly, it is not fair to the baby. If you go into this, you had better be prepared to grow up really fast. I am not saying that you are not a mature and intelligent man. You are most certainly "grown". But you will have to learn what is really important and what is not.

The best way I can describe this to new dads is this: Kids > Stuff. Anything that is not your kids, is just stuff. I learned this when Koen pulled my old Xbox down. I had saved for months to get that damn machine. When it crashed down, I didnt give a flying rats ass about that, All I cared about was if my son was ok. 5 months earlier, I would have killed my own mother for bumping into it on accident, let alone breaking it.

Anyway, i feel like I am nowhere near as eloquent as the gentlemen speaking before me (man seriously why are all of my friends so much smarter than me?). You know where to find me. I am looking forward to shaking your hand in Vegas and buying you a beer. You have always been there for me and I want very much to be able to do the same.

[Best First]

i love you guys.

All of this helps. Thank you.

[Optimus Prime Rib]

[Hound]

Beer soon, yes?

You know where I am if you want to talk matey x

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Paul I think you are going through a really tough situation.
I just want to echo what has been said above, and to say I'm here for you, as we all are to try and support you best we can.

Chin up, could be worse, Bournemouth could be above you in the league table...

[Obfleur]

Hey Besty. Keep it up dude. Brave of you to share all this.

[bumblemusprime]

Vegas "therapy" upcoming...

[Optimus Prime Rib]

Vegas "therapy" upcoming...

Wedding is half paid for. Another 700 to go! Stupid real life bills!

[Computron]

Wish I could be there! Sounds likes Vegas will be a blast!

*Only had the pleasure of meeting Besters once, in Chicago nearly a decade ago. (Cripes...)

Was good times. Smooth was there too. What a wonderful modern age we live in.

[bumblemusprime]

Compy, I thought you passed through London Town right after I did, about 10 years ago. Christ! Ten years!

[Optimus Prime Rib]

We are flying out of Chicago on the 28th of May if you'd like to grab lunch or something?

[Computron]

We are flying out of Chicago on the 28th of May if you'd like to grab lunch or something?

If I still lived near Chicago I'd be happy to, but I moved away several years ago.

[Best First]

Thanks everyone.

This has all deteriorated to the point i am stepping away from it - she is back with her ex and he is threatening me with the police if i speak to her. Despite my natural desire to resist being bullied by some low life i don't see much good in doing otherwise and she knows that i am there is she needs help, not that i am convinced she is ever going to figure out she needs it. Tragic to watch, like Jekyl and Hide.

On more cheerful note i have started counselling and the guy seems excellent, and as of next week i move to a different office.

Cannot wait for Vegas

Comps i could come and see you on my way there? Way back there is no point i will be as bad if not worse than the last time you saw me....

[Computron]

This has all deteriorated to the point i am stepping away from it - she is back with her ex and he is threatening me with the police if i speak to her. Despite my natural desire to resist being bullied by some low life i don't see much good in doing otherwise and she knows that i am there is she needs help, not that i am convinced she is ever going to figure out she needs it. Tragic to watch, like Jekyl and Hide.

That is the smart thing to do. In this context you can't truly help someone that doesn't believe or desire assistance. In addition, you certainly can't turn that into a long lasting and mutually beneficial relationship.

On more cheerful note i have started counselling and the guy seems excellent, and as of next week i move to a different office.

What you mean the thoughts and writings of internet people isn't enough?

Comps i could come and see you on my way there? Way back there is no point i will be as bad if not worse than the last time you saw me....

I'd like to, it's more that its a several hour drive now since I'm not in the Chicagoland area anymore, which means I have to coordinate around my work schedule. Are you flying in at the same time that OPRib is?

[bumblemusprime]

I might be able to find you a temporary berth in Chicago, Besters.

[Optimus Prime Rib]

How damn funny would it be if we were on the same flight out of Chicag
Sorry to hear that things have fallen apart, but I am glad to see that you are doing well.

Man I cant wait for Vegas

[Best First]

so - update to clarify just how Eastenders (miserable UK soap opera) my life is, having told me 2 weeks ago she had to call the police round for allegations of domestic violence she is now engaged to him. I think i may be at the point where it is so ridiculous it is funny.

travel discussions being navigated to the Vegas topic...

[Computron]

so - update to clarify just how Eastenders (miserable UK soap opera) my life is, having told me 2 weeks ago she had to call the police round for allegations of domestic violence she is now engaged to him. I think i may be at the point where it is so ridiculous it is funny.

travel discussions being navigated to the Vegas topic...

Glad you are moving away from that chaos.

Compy, I thought you passed through London Town right after I did, about 10 years ago. Christ! Ten years!

Sorry, missed this earlier. I studied abroad in Agen, France in the summer of 2006 for about 2 months, but didn't have the money and time to go visit London. As it was, I was stretching every dollar just to make it through the semester. (The exchange rate was brutal at the time. Roughly 1.37 dollars to the Euro, and the Pound was even stronger at over 1.8 to the dollar. Not fun when on a tight budget.)

However, I'd love to visit the UK. My wife went a few years before she met me and loved it.

[bumblemusprime]

so - update to clarify just how Eastenders (miserable UK soap opera) my life is, having told me 2 weeks ago she had to call the police round for allegations of domestic violence she is now engaged to him. I think i may be at the point where it is so ridiculous it is funny.

travel discussions being navigated to the Vegas topic...

Glad you are moving away from that chaos.

Compy, I thought you passed through London Town right after I did, about 10 years ago. Christ! Ten years!

Sorry, missed this earlier. I studied abroad in Agen, France in the summer of 2006 for about 2 months, but didn't have the money and time to go visit London. As it was, I was stretching every dollar just to make it through the semester. (The exchange rate was brutal at the time. Roughly 1.37 dollars to the Euro, and the Pound was even stronger at over 1.8 to the dollar. Not fun when on a tight budget.)

However, I'd love to visit the UK. My wife went a few years before she met me and loved it.

Who was that, then? Somebody was my follow-up act in 2005, I swear.

Just be nice to MV's couch. I feel a little bit of regret.

(No I don't.)