I like comics, How 'bout you?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:30 am

A year or so ago I went back and started JMS' run on Spidey. Just, y'know, because.

And then it got to the end and I decided to power through Quesada's attack of insanity and do Brand New Day. Because I'd heard that on its own merits it was quite fun, and I knew that if I kept going I'd get the ultimate pay-off of a glorious victory for Otto Octavius.

And so my slog continues. Brand New Day had been mixed. When it's good it's really rather fun, when it's bad it's bad and I do rather resent its entire existence; but not unlike Chris Claremont or Shane McCarthy, you just have to suck it up sometimes because you know there's a reward on the other side.

I have just read One Moment in Time.

******* SERIOUSLY NOW JOE?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:57 pm

I'm gonna post this again!

This conversation absolutely must have happened.

Joe Q: Alright. We've got to bite the bullet and have Spider-Man become single again.

Literally Everyone Else (LEE): But polls overwhelming show that people LIKE Spider-Man married.

Joe Q: No. It ages the character.

LEE: It's been the status quo for almost as long as it wasn't, and there are something like three times as many Married Spider-Man comics as there are Single Spider-Mans

Q: Doesn't matter. We're losing business here. Let's just do away with the marriage quickly and painlessly in a mini-series. Then we'll just start with a Brand New Day afterwards. Wait. No. This deserves to be in the MAIN Spidey book! In Amazing Spider-Man!

JMS: I want nothing to do with this. Take my name off of it.

Q: No. And you know what? This is BIGGER than just a single Spider-Man book! It should be a big cross-over! A cross-over between ALL the Spider-Man books! Written by JMS!

JMS: Seriously. I don't want my name on the cover. Or on the inside. This is your thing.

Q: SILENCE! A major cross-over EVENT! Written by Babylon 5's JMS and illustrated...by ME!

LEE: You haven't had a single book ship on time since 1997. How are you going to do the art on a weekly mini-series?

Q: I'll handle it! No worries! This is so big, I'll have to deliver!

LEE: Oh, that's good, because if you DON'T we'll literally have NO Spider-Man books shipping until you finish. And Spidey books are some of the company's best selling titles.

Q: It. Will. Be. Fine!

JMS: Great. Have fun. I'm signing with DC and then quitting monthly books forever.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:38 pm

One Moment in Time, Smoothster. Not One More Day.

The "21 trades later, Joe Quesada drops his trousers and slaps the readership across the face with his junk to make sure they haven't forgotten the hurt" sequel.

Wherein we learn the changes made my Mephisto to the timeline. Despite the fact it long stopped really mattering. And that the changes are ****.

"Oh no, Peter. You were late for our wedding because that spooky red pigeon let a criminal out of a police car. Now I can't possibly marry you. It's over. Actually no, I've just decided we shouldn't have kids. But I still want to be with you. So let's live together but just unmarried."
"Okay, Mary Jane. That way Ezekiel and Morlun and me joining the Avengers and The Other and Civil War and Aunt May getting shot and all that other stuff can still happen (except I'll think that I brought May back to life through the Power of Love - Huey Lewis and the News version, rather than knowing it was all part of a deal with the devil); then we can get Doctor Strange to mindwipe the world about my identity and never bother explaining why I need mechanical webshooters again."

For [composite word including 'f*ck']'s actual sake.

"Hey, remember that really ****** thing that I did that made you all angry and you've just about gotten over? Let's go back over all the painful details and I'll explain how I did it in a way that makes even less sense than it did before."

Sometimes you've just got to not explain stuff.

Sometimes somebody just has to say "No, boss. I know you're in charge, but back the [composite word including 'f*ck'] off."

[EDIT] Actually I recant - One More Day is Joe Quesada slapping you across the face with his dick. One Moment in Time is the day three years later when he sticks a video of the incident on YouTube, complete with commentary track.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:32 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Actually I recant - One More Day is Joe Quesada slapping you across the face with his dick. One Moment in Time is the day three years later when he sticks a video of the incident on YouTube, complete with commentary track.

That's pure poetry.

Memory fails. Was it OMD or OMIT where solicitations started referring to Joe Q as "Superstar Joe Quesada"?

OMIT was more twisting the knife. Much like how they touted the "increased sales" after One More Day. "Amazing Spider-Man is now selling *twice* as many issues per month as it was before!" they said in interviews. And NEVER did anybody (except for maybe Rich Johnston) point out that Amazing Spider-Man was now shipping *three* times per month.

I stopped reading ASM for a year or so after OMD. Simply because I didn't want to read stories about a guy who made a deal with the devil...and apparently came out ahead. Even up through ASM 700, that didn't sit well with me. When Peter got an awesome new job and Aunt May found a new love and got married, I still had to remember that all of that was because the main character, Mr. Power and Responsibility, MADE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL TO GET IT.

It's kind of the same reason I can't get into Superior Spider-Man. Doc Ock finding redemption? Trying to prove that HE could be a better Spider-Man than Peter Parker? That sounds fun. Oh? He's only in that position because he KILLED Peter Parker? And in his first few months in Peter's body he tried to basically worm his way into Mary Jane's pants...and when that fails, he just contented himself with a several page wank with Peter's memories of having done it.

I know that I sound like all the fanboys that Marvel has such contempt for. But the Spider-Man stuff was my anchor into the Marvel Universe. Without wanting to read Spider-Man, I didn't really have enough interest in ANY Marvel titles. And since most of my comic purchases were Marvel titles, not having a pile of comics to buy kind of wrecked my enthusiasm for buying comics at all. So now, I read one comic book per month, and that's MTMTE. And I didn't even get into THAT until nearly 2 years after it started because I'd basically forgotten about *comics*.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:58 pm

Superior Spider-Man has got me back into Spidey.

Hey, hang on - wouldn't having Doc Ock take over Pete's body and act like a total douche for a couple of years be a much better way to make Pete single again?

dammit.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:56 pm

I could never be get into Spiderman before Superior. Now it's one of my favourite titles.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:51 pm

Best First wrote:Superior Spider-Man has got me back into Spidey.

Hey, hang on - wouldn't having Doc Ock take over Pete's body and act like a total douche for a couple of years be a much better way to make Pete single again?

dammit.

House of M, basically Marvel's New 52 would have been perfect. Or they could have just left her dead when they killed her back in 2000. Or left her alone once they separated shortly after that. Or even had HER get shot and have Pete give up his marriage to save HER. Or they could have waited until Age of Ultron.

Or combine a bunch of those. MJ leaves Pete, is written out for a year, and them time-travel thing changes it to the "they were never married" bit after it no longer matters.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:38 am

Considering that the reality-altering Scarlet Witch had a grudge against all Avengers, including Spidey, and had issues with marital bliss, at the very least Marvel could have used a non-Satan character to erase the marriage.

I've already done my OMIT rant, though: http://www.intergalacticmedicineshow.co ... rticle=038

TL;DR? Deals with the devil have to come due. It's a dramatic cheat otherwise. Peter needs to be accountable for giving in to the power of the Prince of ****ing Darkness. It was established by Christopher Marlowe back in 15-*******-92 and HAS NOT CHANGED.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:07 am

All it needed. ALL it needed was for Mephisto to decide that Parker got more out of the deal that he was meant to and come back to collect.

He can explain that he needs a favour, because the last time they spoke Pete's wife got him to throw in a free universal memory wipe that was done so well that even Doctor Strange thinks he was responsible. As such the scales don't balance, et cetera, et cetera.

Parker obviously has no idea what Mephisto is talking about. Deal? Wife? What? So the devil returns his original memories. Sample dialogue "You don't believe I expected you to take my word for it? Who do you think you're dealing with?"

Hell, Mephisto could even claim responsibility for Beast forgetting about Elixir, saying he nudged proceedings along for shits and giggles.

The discovery would CRUSH Parker. Simply finding out that he was married to MJ is enough karmic retribution for making the deal.

When the adventure is over, he can be offered a mindwipe by somebody else to clear it up. And he says no, because it's his choice to live with and he's done making deals.

Simple. Straightforward. Sorted.

But of course it can't be done now, because why the [composite word including 'f*ck'] should Otto care if Mephisto?

Grumblegrumble.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:38 pm

Joe Q seems to have approached OMD with mindset "Whatever we do, fans will complain". And he's not exactly wrong.

But, and this is looking back with five years of perspective, the story where it happened...very well may be the single worst Spider-Man story in the character's 50 year history.

Fans, by and large, not only hated, but CONTINUE to hate it half a decade later.

The "creators" who aren't JMS disowned the story.

There's something to be said about having to tell an unpopular story for the sake of future tales. But this particular story was THE WORST OF ALL TIME. It's not even about the outcome. Most people I know accepted "Pete is single" within the first year. It's about the character completely and utterly failing as a hero, as a husband, and as a human being.

And it's been long enough that, even if they go and do a retcon along the lines of what we've suggested, it's pretty clear that WASN'T the original intention.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:56 pm

It's just such a fundamental stain on the character;

"With great power comes... a deal with the ultimate evil"

I think that is why Superior works, because Otto is putting real distance between OMD and Pete.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:58 pm

Best First wrote:It's just such a fundamental stain on the character;

"With great power comes... a deal with the ultimate evil"

I think that is why Superior works, because Otto is putting real distance between OMD and Pete.

Superior Spidey seems to be a good story...that I'm just not interested in. Once it's over, I'll probably go back and read the whole thing. What little I've read I enjoyed, but not enough to follow the title regularly.

OMD on the other hand...once more...is terrible in just about every conceivable way. Linkara spent about an hour in one of his videos dissecting the thing. And he probably could have gone longer.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:23 pm

The Death's Head II come back just got a lot more interesting:

REVOLUTIONARY WAR: DEATH'S HEAD II #1
ANDY LANNING & ALAN COWSILL (W) • NICK ROCHE (A)
Cover by MARK BROOKS
Variant Cover by Liam Sharp
Part 4 of "Revolutionary War"
• The long-awaited return of DEATH'S HEAD -- one of the biggest hits of the original Marvel UK!
• Death's Head! Death's Head II! On an adventure together for the first time EVER!
• What threat could be grave enough to bring these two heroes together from across time? How about the villainous Mys-Tech organization resurfacing with an army?!

Obviously the concern remains that Lanning was the one who thought DHII was a better idea than DH in the first place...

Post by **Computron** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:07 pm

Never been a Spider-Man fan or avid reader, but I've always viewed Peter Parker as relentlessly ethical, and intelligent.

Thus, he would be the last person to make a deal to literally rewrite world history, destroy his marriage, and eliminate the future people of a timeline, all to extend the lifespan of someone already in their 60's(?)

I imagine someone may view it was him making the ultimate sacrifice which means his actions were an expression of true compassion, but I wasn't aware he had the moral authority to make that decision for everyone else too.

Also, his name was Mephisto, had horns and is all in red. I mean come on. If you're gonna try to pull that off at least have him look like Al Pacino in Devil's Advocate.

Which would make Peter Parker Keanu Reeves.

Hmm...

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:23 am

I could grow a beard before I could finish listing everything wrong with One More Day. And I grow about as much facial hair as Optimus Prime.

Kieron Gillen is really sweet on DH1 (which leads me to hope for a Gillen TF arc once his exclusive with Marvel is up). I can't see Marvel bringing back DH2 for good when other writers have been using DH1.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:53 am

Be great is they actually used this story line to clear up the mess that is DH2 and leave the main man standing.

Like i say tho be a little suprised of Lanning did that.

But hope/fanboy naivity springs eternal.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:06 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:Kieron Gillen is really sweet on DH1 (which leads me to hope for a Gillen TF arc once his exclusive with Marvel is up). I can't see Marvel bringing back DH2 for good when other writers have been using DH1.

616 Death's Head is mint.

Not sure KG's exclusive to Marvel though. He's churning stuff out for Image at the moment and they're a far bigger concern than IDW these days.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:58 am

Being exclusive for Marvel basically means "you can't work for DC, everyone else is a fair game", and vice versa. At least that's how it always seemed to me.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:29 am

“The British Transformers comics are very much a generational thing for a certain strain of Brit creators, I fear,” says Kieron Gillen. “If Impactor was our Jean Grey, Death's Head was our Wolverine.”

From this thing: http://www.newsarama.com/18988-deaths-h ... -push.html

Which is fantastic. Deadpool vs. Death's Head? Oh yeah.

Yeah, Gillen will be doing a TF comic at some point, I think.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:43 pm

That was a joy to read - cheers Spence.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:39 am

Awesome, isn't it?

DH in a big crossover would be fantastic. Get Hitch to draw him again.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:57 pm

Black Science was pretty ace. Remender <3

Post by **Best First** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:59 pm

I'll have to look at that - Remender is great.

Just gobbled up the first 2 volumes of Saga - going to have to go on to the weeklies now...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:40 pm

Saga's good in that, whilst it's subject to delays, Image save it up until they've got six issues made then stick them out monthly.

So that, whilst you still get great big Ellis/Cassaday style gaps, they're between arcs. So it's either in a "coming out" phase or a "waiting for the next arc" phase. None of that hanging around impatiently between issues we've had on so many other titles. Yeah, there's still waiting around indefinitely between arcs, but once it starts back up you know it's going to come out on ******* time.

And they put the trade out almost as soon as the sixth issue is done, so you can just jump the [composite word including 'f*ck'] on. Fo rizzle.

It's also amazing. And I've also got last week's issue still to read. And loads of other stuff. BACKLOG.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:14 pm

hah - weeklies. what is this 1985?

Good scheduling plan - way less reader attrition i suspect.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:28 am

So, er, Uncanny Avengers #14 then.

I think my biggest problem here is that UA seems to sit in its own little pocket, with little interaction with the other books. It's hard to tell where it fits in continuity. So I have trouble buying any of the drama in it because I'm just assuming this has all happened off-panel already in the other books, so any real developments will be undone in time for it to slot in without too much effect elsewhere.

Because given what Remender's already said about the next arc, there's no way that happens without a major impact across a dozen other books, and that impact just doesn't look to be there.

And also there's no way he just did that f'reals. One of them, maybe. Two of them, maybe. But not all three. Especially with oodles of time fluctuation spilling liquid TIEM all over the place.

Seriously though, part of why I struggle with UA is because you'd think somebody in one of the other books would have noticed the Peak being destroyed or Chuck's grave being blowed up or the Scarlet Witch zapping every mutant into space. But no, only Havok's speech.

I DON'T KNOW.

Young Avengers is amaze though. That splash of Wiccan walking across time/space. SRSLY.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:33 pm

Aand, just as I'm caught up in trades with Superior Spider-Man (which is super), Marvel go and announce this:

http://marvel.com/news/comics/2014/1/12 ... spider-man

Which is obviously expected but also kind of a bit disappointing.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:50 pm

Did we really go a month without a reply in this thread?

I read an issue of Deadpool Kills Deadpool and it was amazing.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:32 pm

I skimmed through this latest Superior at the LCS, saw symbiote and Peter-Ghost action, and thought, "Oh, Peter's ghost is back thanks to the symbiote, perhaps leaving some Peter-residue in the Parker body from when Peter and the symbiote were together and that's how the Train back to Pete begins? That's pretty cool." And then I picked it up. First time I've bought an issue of Spider-Man since OMD.

Of course, that actually WASN'T what happened: Ock was re-gaining control of the symbiote after losing control due to the influence of Flash, and Peter's ghost just comes from the Parker body still, as apparently the ghost has been there all along, not being snuffed out and biding its time because comics. Which was kind of lame. However, I was eating up the Goblin stuff (despite part of me going "The Goblin is NOT The Joker") and while I had zero invested in Carlie Cooper, I was still pulled in by her heel turn. I THINK I'll start buying Spidey again. It'll be my first time back on the book in 7 years, which is quicker than the time it took me to pick up ASM again after The Clone Saga.

But speaking as a guy who hasn't bought a Marvel monthly in a while (pre-Avengers movie, certainly), man is everything NEW and RED and ADVERTISED!!! I had to check to make sure my issue wasn't polybagged with a hologram cover to make sure I wasn't in the 90s because that stuff was garish. Not necessarily hating, though: I took it as a sign that while in the early 21st century comics had to rely on readers like us, they are now flush with the disposable income of youth.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:23 am

All the Spock chat above has reminded me to recommend to everyone the comic Superior Foes of Spider-Man. It's really great. It's my favourite book after MTMTE, for some similar reasons, comedy, ensemble cast, engaging art.

I can understand it being a hard sell, but I will try and pimp it a bit.

It's a comedy/crime book about the Sinister Six. But not the good line-up you're probably thinking of. And there's only 5 of them. Have you ever wondered what C-list villains do when they're not being punched in the face by Spider-Man? This book will tell you. It's basically Hawkeye but if Boomerang was Hawkeye and the Sinister...several...were Kate Bishop. The art is by Steve Lieber (tho the most recent was a fill-in) and it's wonderful. Shocker is in it. Everyone loves Shocker. You should be reading a book with Shocker in it.

There's like 6 issues so far. Try the first one out on Comixology if you have the spare bucks.

TransFans.co.uk

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